Hmmm
I'm not entirely sure what to say... or whether to say how I feel or not...
Firstly,
Wanda - Thank you. I have been thinking about you and wondering how you are. xxx
abroadermark - The first thing that struck me was how down you sounded in your initial response. I did wonder whether you were being a bit sarcastic too... but perhaps not.
If you really are feeling that low then I'm so sorry. Why are you an 'idiot?' You certainly sound a LONG way from being an idiot to me...
In terms of what you say about looking for 'whys' being the stupidest thing you can do... Well, in all honesty, I completely understand how you reach that conclusion... I swing from holding that opinion and then holding the opinion that jss writes about.
I guess that ultimately, I want answers. Some people do and some don't. Some people aren't bothered by the fact they don't have an understanding of the reasons why, others are plagued by the need to know... the need to make peace with something through reaching an understanding,even if on a purely academic level.
For some it's one more struggle they could do without, for others it's the only way they can put something to rest.
Again, I would add that I swing between these two poles. I think many of us do at various points in our journey.
I don't know whether it's a stupid thing to do. Often it seems to intensify the pain and I'm caught in a web of 'do I, don't I?' and then the feeling of guilt descends... the awful 'what about all the orphans?' scenario.
I don't know.
It all makes me despise myself but no more than I would anyway so... Nothing to lose perhaps.
Anyhow abroadermark, I digress.
I'm sorry to hear you sounding so low and upset and wonder what inspired such despair. I get the impression that you might find it hard to write about it on your blog (hence your coming here...) I'm not sure about the misery thing though... That made me feel a bit... unsure... It makes me want to defend myself and then it makes me a bit... Well... Why should I need to defend myself? It's MY blog and I can be miserable if I like... But I can't y'see. Not without struggling with horrible guilt.
Do you know that I found it so so painful to be so honest about how bad I was feeling that I set up ANOTHER blog for the 'really bad' posts? Even after writing so much here I still wince at comments that I suspect come from people who are actually thinking, 'oh just shut UP you whinging, whining b*tch'.
So.
That is a very long reply. Sorry! Summarising never was a gift of mine...
Andrea - Thank you. Perhaps that is the best any of us can do really.
jss - It's so nice to hear you. Really.
Something you said is actually quite important to me.... and the more I read it, the more I'm struck by it.
You said that eating disorders must have whys and unless we find them we will
" spend our lives trying to overcome by sheer force of will, which leaves us utterly depleted, or worse we sink further into the addiction."
Partly because of the hurt I'm causing and partly because I hate living in this cage, I have made a decision to 'get better' over my summer holiday.
It is only just starting to occur to me that it may not actually be a very realistic thing to say. I'm not sure that I can just do it by 'force of will'. And yet, there is a part of me that insists on not accepting that this is something 'real'.
You comment about the ed having something to do with my sister almost stung. Not in a bad way jss, just in the way that you get when someone has thought about something for you... Care can hurt sometimes can't it.
I guess it might be something to do with her. I just don't know what.
I do wonder about certain things but I don't dare to put them into words yet. I'm not sure how much I understand and how much is just rubbish.
I know that you understand the agony of watching someone you love destroy themselves.
I'm so sorry that you have such an acute understanding but, thank you for sharing it with me. x
abroadermark - I AM listening to you and thinking that you sound like you are hurting..?
Please feel free to express what you think. Each of us has that right and the right to disagree.
x
Wednesday 30 June 2010
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Blessings and prayers,
ReplyDeleteandrea
I came. I read. I went to put the kids to bed.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your concern and your post length reply to my comment. I'll be back when it's quieter around here.
I think I'm gonna like you, Wonderingsoul. :)
Okay, I'm back. Lucky you, huh? ;)
ReplyDeleteI wasn't being sarcastic at all when I wrote the comment in question. Looking back at it, I can see how it might have sounded that way though. I can also see how the "misery loves company" part might have sounded a little mean. I'm not even sure why I said it. I guess I was just sort of rambling and that's what came out. I'm sorry if I made you feel the need to defend yourself. That certainly wasn't my intention.
I too go both ways when it comes to the looking for "whys" issue. I mostly stay on the questioning, wondering, wanting to understand side of the fence though. Some people say that I think too much. I don't think that's true. But sometimes the questioning does seem pointless. Maybe it's just that it IS pointless sometimes. And other times it's the very best thing to do. The trouble is knowing which time is which.
It doesn't make sense that people who think you're a whinging b*tch would even come to your blog, much less leave comments. So I'm betting that you're pretty safe being miserable here. Probably no one is calling you names - even in their heads. :D
Speaking of being miserable, why does it make you feel guilty? Is it because you feel like there's nothing in your life bad enough to justify the misery? If it is something like that, I think I understand it. I used to feel like I didn't "deserve" to be depressed because I have such a good life. Even my weird childhood wasn't bad compared to what other people have lived (and are living) through. I thought that if I cried, or complained, or asked for help people would think I'm not happy with my life. But I AM happy with it - I have a very good life, and I know it. The trouble for me was that I could SEE how nice my life is, but I couldn't FEEL it. It was an awful feeling, but no one knew I felt that way because I felt guilty for feeling that way, and kept it a secret. And all the sadness came out as irritability and anger. Oh my goodness, I am REALLY rambling here. I'm not even going to look back to see if what I said makes sense because I'm pretty sure that it won't, and I'm too tired to fix anything.
I wanted to address a couple of other things, but I can't keep my dang uncooperative eyes open. Yesterday was a hell of a day. Today was a little better, but it's still been emotionally draining. I'm gonna put myself to bed now. I'll be back later.
G'night.
Andrea - Thanks.
ReplyDeleteabroadermark - Hey.
Well. I read through your response a couple of times. Thanks so much for taking the time to go into more detail.
I came here earlier but like you, have had to come back and now I am here again, I seem to be all out of words.
I can identify with what you write about how frightening it is to feel that you have no excuse for feeling bad when you can't for the life of you identify anything that has been 'bad enough' to cause pain in you rlife.
I guess it's something that many of us experience to a greater or lesser extent and, in my experience, is one of the key inicators of depression... Depression seems to have some really 'classic' one liners, and the 'You've had a lovely life. Get over it b*tch' seems to be one of them.
I suppose that I am learning that there are different parts to me. I'm brewing a post on that but, it's not going to come easily because I am somewhat skeptical about the whole thing...
Has life been lovely? Well.. Yes and no.
Nothing is lovely about the scenerio I grew up with.
But then, I haven't suffered abuse or the horrors that many people suffer.
So...
Yes. I will always feel guilty about being miserable. I will always hide how I feel and i will always struggle to understand some of the things I feel.
On the other hand, on some days I think that living alongside, and at times UNDERNEATH, depression's very heavy shadow is like living in hell. It is not something that I can choose not to have to deal with, despite my self disgust and (on other days) my conviction that none of it is real OR that I am making a conscious decision to CHOOSE depression.
ONE good thing that my therapist tells me over and over is that it is not my fault andI do not choose it.
I find some comfort in this although I struggle to believe her much of the time.
You write about the way that you felt in the past tense abroadermark, which makes it sound like you are through the depression, and yet, you sound as though there's a part of you still very torn between searching and making sense of, and ignoring and getting on with. You're right that it is hard to know which to do at what time...
I've said enough now and need sleep myself but by all means, feel free to come back to address whatever you want.
I'm glad today has been a little better, although it still sounds as though things are far from being wonderful.
What you said DID make sense but I'm glad you didn't look bck and edit it too much. I like thoughts that aren't so polished that they've lost their edges...
Take care abroadermark. I hope that sleep has been refreshing.
You are re-writing my own story. Some of your phrasing, some of your depictions echo the same pleas I have screamed in silence. It's surreal to find such things written outside of my own private writings.
ReplyDeleteI cried while reading some of your earlier blogs because I know the space you inhibit, I know it so well. Reading it was not like being exposed to a new notion or description. There was no surprise at the end of any sentence or at the turn of any phrase but rather a memory of my own experience articulated by unknown hands.
Don't get me wrong, obviously your circumstances are totally unique to you, but the expressions, the depictions, the feelings even some of your interior monologue is so known to me...I know the flip flopping, the flailing arms while floundering in the deepest darkest abyss. The self measuring, the incapacity to make a sound while all the time silently SCREAMING!!!! I know the morbid luxuries of reveling in insidious blackness.
I pause here,in fear that I am somehow normalizing your experience, perhaps we are not so much the same... perhaps my assumptions are not warranted.
I really just want to tell you that here I am, having known such things and yet I am still alive. I still breathe, I still feel, and ultimately I still hope... is that the most insane thing? To know such things, to have lived such things, and yet to still cradle in my arms the possibility that there is still life beyond such mania.
I am not always in a space of feeling "healed" I am not what you could call equanimous, and yet I can sincerely connect, I can be present, I can feel joy, and I can hope for better days ahead.
You can move beyond this space Wonderingsoul. You can know life beyond this mania. Our wondering souls can actually remember the way to peace, We just have to learn to still the raging tempests and surrender to a power greater than ourselves.
You may not be willing or ready to hear this but my offering is given with absolute love and sincerity...
There are many ways to say it but I'll settle for one of the simplest. This is above all is what I have come to know
"I can't...
God Can...
I Think I'll let God"
When i let go of the strangle hold, the white knuckled grip I have over my life and hand it over to a power greater than myself I begin to see beyond my own state and into a gleaming future of endless possibility.
I could have been told this a million times over, but I did not and could not know it to be true until I finally let go and let God.
It's my offering, you are welcome to pick it up or pick it to bits.
Blessings, StillHoping
You are re-writing my own story. Some of your phrasing, some of your depictions echo the same pleas I have screamed in silence. It's surreal to find such things recorded outside of my own private writings.
ReplyDeleteI cried while reading some of your earlier blogs because I know the space you inhibit, I know it so well. Reading it was not like being exposed to a new notion or description. There was no surprise at the end of any sentence or at the turn of any phrase but rather a memory of my own experience articulated by unknown hands. I know the flip flopping, the flailing arms while floundering in the deepest darkest abyss. The self measuring, the incapacity to make a sound while all the while silently SCREAMING!!!! I know the morbid luxuries of reveling in insidious blackness.
I pause here,in fear that I am somehow normalizing your experience, perhaps we are not so much the same... I do not profess to be or having walked exactly where you so, but I own some of your expressions, I understand the space you go to. perhaps my assumptions are not warranted.
I really just want to tell you that here I am, having known all such things and yet I am still alive. I still breathe, I still feel, and ultimately I still hope... is that the most insane thing? To know such things, to have lived such things, and yet to still cradle in my arms the possibility that there is still life beyond such mania.
I am not always in a space of feeling "healed" I am not what you could call equanimous, and yet I can sincerely connect, I can be present, I can feel joy, and I can hope for better days ahead.
You can move beyond this space Wonderingsoul. You can know life beyond this mania. Our wondering souls can actually remember the way to peace, We just have to learn to still the raging tempests and surrender to a power greater than ourselves.
You may not be willing or ready to hear this but my offering is given with absolute love and sincerity...
There are many ways to say it but I'll settle for one of the simplest. This is above all is what I have come to know
"I can't...
God Can...
I Think I'll let God"
When i let go of the white knuckled grip I have over my life and hand it over to a power greater than myself I begin to see beyond my own state and into a gleaming future of endless possibility.
I could have been told this a million times over, but I did not and could not know it to be true until I finally let go and let God.
It's my offering, you are welcome to pick it up or pick it to bits.
Blessings, Still Hoping
Hey Wonderingsoul. This at least the fifth time I've been here today. Time before last I wrote out this really great (in my opinion) comment, which actually had nothing to do with the original post, and Blogger did something weird and I lost it. Arrrrgggghhhhh!!! So I came back and wrote another - not so great - comment and lost it too. I think it was my fault that time though. Now I'm here again, and wondering if I should try to rewrite the "great" comment again, or just blabber on about nothing, which happens to be one of my specialties, and actually - now that I think of it - has a lot to do with the lost "great" comment of earlier this evening was about.
ReplyDeleteThe Great Lost Comment was much more elaborate than what I'm going to say here, but basically I wrote that I wonder if the real trouble is not having enough words (or the right words), or simply having too much to say - so much that it's nearly impossible to decide what's important enough to be expressed. Figuring it out is often so overwhelming that it seems easier just to go with the excuse that the words for what I'm feeling don't exist, or aren't in my vocabulary, and be done with it. Does that make any sense at all to you? Oh, I said it so much better the first time. Darn it!!
You can read the condensed (and cleaned up a bit) version my depression story on my blog. I told it in several posts throughout March of this year - starting with the first 7 Quick Takes Friday of that month, with the main part of the story being told in the There Was an Old Woman posts, parts 1-5, and other bits of it in various other posts from March until the present.
I want to talk more about ALL of this stuff. And I'd also like to know your story better.
Guess what?! I finally got my ukulele! And I'm off to play with it for a while before I go to bed. :D
Goodnight, Wonderingsoul. God be with you.
StillHoping,
ReplyDeleteI just want to let you know that I have been here and I am reading.
I'm struggling to respond (as per usual) but want you to know that I was profoundly touched by what you wrote.
I was at work (where I can't - and wouldn't - access my blog but my email mails me all comments... I found myself having to blink quite hard when I read parts of what you said.
And the God thing...? Another post I have wanted to write but cannot possibly seem to form the words for.
I believe you on some level... but I have been there before and getting back isn't so easy.
I am bad and tired and cynical and I don't trust.
You are probably right about letting go of the white knuckle grip... I feel as though al this stuff must somehow, have to do with control and addiction.
It's.. beyond baffling.
I tried to read your blog StillHoping, but can't find anything... I'd like to get to know you.
Thank you and I'm sorry this isn't really a proper response to your incredible words (that I hardly dare to let in).
You weren't 'normalising' my experience and I didn't feel that you were so please don't feel I have interpreted it like that.
Thank you for reading,
WS.
abroadermark - I ONLY just read your Great Lost Comment (revised version 3).
I'm sure that what your Great Comment (before it became the GLC) was indeed perfect and eloquent but I can assure you that what I have just read is well articulated and makes a LOT of sense.
I haven't had the chance to read through your story yet, but I will just as soon as I am sitting in a place where I can be sure that my connection doesn't drop out every other minute (in other words, I'll have to go and sit on top of the router).
I understand that perhaps a part of the problem is the inability to find words.
My therapist once said something (ok, for all I know she may say it every session but I dissociate so regularly that I wouldn't know) ... er... yeah... I RECALL her saying ONCE that part of what T is about is finding words for feelings that simply don't have any. I've also heard the theory that sometimes our pain comes from a time when we didn't have speech... so... Things to ponder... My inner cynic (a misleading title, given that it's far too huge to just be confined to my insides) says it's all a bunch of BS, but another part (parts again) says it's possible.
And abm, it IS easier not to other trying to find words.
It really is... Sometimes I just have to sit still, squeeze my eyes tightshut, put my fingers in my ears and hum like a little kid.
But. I find the pain doesn't go away. It just doesn't move at all.
Which is worse?
I'd like you to "talk more about ALL this stuff"
So pleased about your uke.
There is a v useful online ukelele tuner which comes up if you google it. Genius!
Hope you sleep well.
Hmmm...I just re-read my last comment, and it really doesn't say what I was trying to say. Here's another attempt: maybe for people like me finding the words to express ourselves isn't as much of a problem as deciding what (out of all the thoughts and ideas and questions swirling around in the ol' noggin) matters enough to express. Perhaps pinpointing what's important enough to say is the real problem. If I'm right about that, then the approach to remedying it would be quite the opposite of what I've been doing. Does that make sense?
ReplyDeleteOkay, it's apparent that no one in this house is going to quit talking to me, so I guess I'll just stop trying to write. Be back later.
Hope all is well with you, WS.
ABM...
ReplyDeleteIt KINDA makes sense, maybe, a bit... I think..? Er...except f course, your interpretation of 'what matters enough to express' may not necessarily be correct and by you maxim, your healing kind of depends on you being 'right' about that.
What if you are wrong about what you think 'matters enough to express'.
For me, I keep finding that it's the very things that I consider to be totally UNimportant and irrelevant that seem to turn out to be quite significant.I guess that's the part of why therapists are important ( I CANNOT believe I am saying this.. SHHHHHH... DON'T quote me... I am just TOO proud to admit this kind of thing...) cos they sometimes see things that we can't.
And abm, what HAVE you been doing and what is the opposite? (No pressure to answer that qu)
Lovely that they won't quit talking to you, but please don't stop trying to write.